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 Post subject: NUI, Galway proposing HUGE postgraduate fee increases
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:57 am 
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Firstly, take a quick look at this spreadsheet. It's a breakdown of the fee increases being proposed by the University. It was recommended by the Finance/Resource Committee on Tuesday last (14th June 2005) for approval by Údarás na hOllscoile (Governing Authority) next Wednesday (22nd June 2005).

Here's a copy of e-mail sent by NUI, Galway Students' Union to Údarás na hOllscoile, University Management Team and Faculty Deans last night to highlight some of the problems with approving such an increase, without having examined the issue fully:

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Hi,

Attached you'll find a document outlining the proposed increases in postgraduate fees which were recommended by the Finance/Resource Committee on Tuesday last for approval by Údarás na hOllscoile next week.

Needless to say, NUI, Galway Students' Union is very unhappy with the increases being proposed by the University. The proposals have been drawn up without taking any account of the following:

- The direct decrease in the value of fellowships caused by any increase in fees. The University has not indicated it has any intention to increase fellowships in line with the fee increase;
- Even if fellowships were to increase, the income cap of €12,700 imposed by the Department of Education and Science would most likely be breached, meaning students qualifying for a Higher Education Grant ("local authority grant") would lose out on grant funding;
- That despite assurances from the University that the above would be investigated, the cap is beyond the control of the University and in seeking to raise it, the University would effectively be seeking further funding from the Exchequer (albeit in a roundabout way), which is extremely unlikely to happen;
- The impact this will have, in particular, on students studying in the arts/humanities area, who already struggle to source funding of any sort, in a system increasingly driven by research in the sciences;
- The fact that NUI, Galway has traditionally attracted students (who would otherwise have gone to UCD/TCD) because of its lower fees;
- The service in the University has not improved in any significant manner in recent times which may merit a higher fee;
- That even though the main justification being offered is that NUI, Galway has fallen behind the sector, fee increases of 9% and 7% occurred in 2003/04 and 2004/05 respectively with a fee increase of 10% already agreed for 2005/06, despite annual inflation rates running at 2-3% during the same period.

Indeed, further investigation will, no doubt, highlight other issues which I have not raised here.

We in NUI, Galway Students' Union are not opposed to the idea of increasing incoming funding into the University. However, the full range of issues arising from these increases have not been reviewed, with the potential increase in revenue being the only driver. This is not a sufficiently thorough process by which to decide on such significant increases in postgraduate fees.

Please review the attached documentation (paying particular attention to the right-hand columns) and I will endeavour to contact you in advance of the meeting next week to discuss this matter further.

Regards,
Paddy.

If this isn't addressed at the meeting of Údarás na hOllscoile next Wednesday, there's nothing we'll be able to do about it afterwards. The University claims that it has to be agreed now because it won't make it to the promotional brochures in time otherwise. However, we don't subscribe to that view at all. The University has, in the past, sent out material giving an approximate fee cost listed, stating that this may change and to check a particular website or with the Fees Office for info in advance of making a final decision.

Comments welcome here or by e-mail to su.president@nuigalway.ie

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:40 am 
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Well done Paddy it is good to see the union is strong on this

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:52 am 
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Here here! So what can the ordinary Joe Postgrad do to help?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:08 am 
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Ditto. Is there something specific (besides the obv. stuff) that we can do?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:04 am 
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This is absolutely ridiculous and will further lead to Arts students funding the sciences which already get a huge whack of private funding i.e. massive new biochem building ordinary students are not allowed into and a restaurant they can't eat in.

I can't believe I wasted all those hours at faculty meetings with Jim Marshall last year listening to how the uni was going to raise its research profile. Exactly how? Raising postgrad costs to E4,250 for an M. Litt? All arts students get is access to a library they can't use and computer suites they can't access at night when they're finished their day jobs that feed them. Lets not forget the monthly meeting with the supervisor who can only recommend that you buy the books as the library can't.


Fuck this I'm going to whore myself on the docks and head to TCD. At least there I'll be overcharged for an actual service.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:01 am 
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Gothmog wrote:
This is absolutely ridiculous and will further lead to Arts students funding the sciences which already get a huge whack of private funding i.e. massive new biochem building ordinary students are not allowed into and a restaurant they can't eat in.


Are you talking about Moffats? Because that's not for science students; it's for staff and postgrads. From any discipline.

Gothmog wrote:
I can't believe I wasted all those hours at faculty meetings with Jim Marshall last year listening to how the uni was going to raise its research profile. Exactly how? Raising postgrad costs to E4,250 for an M. Litt? All arts students get is access to a library they can't use and computer suites they can't access at night when they're finished their day jobs that feed them. Lets not forget the monthly meeting with the supervisor who can only recommend that you buy the books as the library can't.


Your postgrad fees, ie that E4,250, are paid when a. you are on a county council grant or b. you have funding. You should have funding before you set out on an Arts postgrad. There are lots of opporotunities [sp?} for arts funding, like the GOI award, the Lady Gregory and the faculty fellowship. Your supervisor should have advised you on this before you started with him/her. If you decide to go ahead anyway, I've found the staff to be really good and give you tutorials to teach, homework to correct or exams to invigilate. This all pays quite well and doesn't take up the whole day/week. Your particular dept pays for all interlibrary loans and all library purchases you request when you're a postgrad. You pay nada.

EDIT: Despite all this I am still against the increases!!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:24 am 
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My point about Moffats would be that it was a ridiculous waste of resources and elitist. Staff already have a their own club or whatever in the Quad, not that I begrudge them it, simply that building a huge biochem building that has no use (to my knowledge) to anyone other than postgrad biochem students was I think a bit unfair. Especially since it involved an awful lot of (our) public money.

For postgrad fees only two years of a masters and one year of a doctorate are paid by the council. Well as to opportunities for Arts postgrad funding they are miniscule in comparison to those offered to Science I think there is only one NUIG fellowship or whatever its called in philosophy for example (two in history for me). GOI scholarships try to interest foreigners to take an interest in Irish Affairs as well but I think theres only 40 grants (for the country if memory serves) in total anyway.

Now I wouldn't say you pay nada for your book purchases ie E4,250. I'm not a postgrad anyway just to let you know, but am an embittered undergrad.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:49 am 
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Wonko The Sane wrote:
Here here! So what can the ordinary Joe Postgrad do to help?


Indeed, if you need bodies to run around yelling at people or whatever, give us a shout.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:01 pm 
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I'm in Belgium, therefore I demand a bad college thingy


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:19 pm 
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Gothmog wrote:
Staff already have a their own club or whatever in the Quad, not that I begrudge them it, simply that building a huge biochem building that has no use (to my knowledge) to anyone other than postgrad biochem students was I think a bit unfair. Especially since it involved an awful lot of (our) public money.


Do they have something in the Quad? I thought that Moffats was instead of that, but I could be wrong. I'd be interested to find out.

Was that building built by public money/ fees money? Again, it would be interesting to find out for sure.

Quote:
For postgrad fees only two years of a masters and one year of a doctorate are paid by the council. Well as to opportunities for Arts postgrad funding they are miniscule in comparison to those offered to Science I think there is only one NUIG fellowship or whatever its called in philosophy for example (two in history for me). GOI scholarships try to interest foreigners to take an interest in Irish Affairs as well but I think theres only 40 grants (for the country if memory serves) in total anyway.


The county council grant is paying for all of my doctorate and paid for all of my masters too. As far as I know there are a lot more fellowships than that, as I know a lot of people with them. GOI scholarships are for Irish students only, or at least if you look at the list of people who have them, they are 90% Irish. There are 50 given out every year.

Quote:
Now I wouldn't say you pay nada for your book purchases ie E4,250. I'm not a postgrad anyway just to let you know, but am an embittered undergrad.


No, really, if you order a book through the library, they pay it out of their own grant money. You can check it up on the website. And if you're a postgrad the department pay all of your ILLs, again, out of their research budget. Okay, you could say that with your fees you contribute to that but you could say that about anything on campus really.

Don't worry about being an embittered undergrad - I'm an embittered postgrad! None of the above info is fed to you automatically on becoming a postgrad and I only know it through experience. That's one of the things that bothers me most - the lack of info around for your general Arts postgrad - ie what you are and aren't entitled to.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:25 pm 
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uqui wrote:
Gothmog wrote:
Staff already have a their own club or whatever in the Quad, not that I begrudge them it, simply that building a huge biochem building that has no use (to my knowledge) to anyone other than postgrad biochem students was I think a bit unfair. Especially since it involved an awful lot of (our) public money.


Do they have something in the Quad? I thought that Moffats was instead of that, but I could be wrong. I'd be interested to find out.


The staff club in the Quad is still there, but it's just that - a club. Staff have to pay a yearly membership to join it, otherwise (pre-Moffats) they hah to go to town or eat with us plebs.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:46 pm 
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Gothmog wrote:
a huge biochem building that has no use (to my knowledge) to anyone other than postgrad biochem students was I think a bit unfair. Especially since it involved an awful lot of (our) public money.


The building you're referring to is the NCBES, I take it. It's the National Centre for BioMedical Engineering Science and it is not a biochem building. The building was paid for with funding from the HEA (Higher Education Authority under the PRTLI (Programme for Research in Third Level Institutions). The University got something like €32 million for it, €24m odd for construction and the rest for equipment and funding research students. The HEA also funded similar 'centres' in UCC, Trinners, UCD and Maynooth. The building was purpose built and funded, as I'm sure were the IT building, and the Arts Millenium building.
As I said it's not a biochem building, it's not. There are postgrads in there from the biochemistry department, but also from microbiology, medicine, engineering and IT departments. [/i]

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:45 pm 
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Jaysus :? !!! Those are hefty fees!! Poor me, i gets no grant or nothing, its the likes of me these increases hurt most!!! Ah well, Its another reason for me to go to UCC really isnt it....I can do a masters there for way cheaper even this year, and lets face it, the facilities are well better down there. Which leads on nicely to my next point: are not postgrads, like taught masters etc essentially like a business, as in the college are eager to attract people to do these courses becos its a source of income for them?? So, correct me if im wrong, but wont these massive increases just turn people off doing postgrads here, particularly if they are not eligible for any grants etc?? Especially when the majority of courses, im just talking about sciences here, can be done elsewhere, in a college with better facilities?? The peoples republic........Here i come!!!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:05 pm 
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When would these fees come into place, next year i take it? Fair play on telling people, pity they are planning all this during the summer.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 8:19 pm 
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Sorry for the delay in replying - I've been up to my eyes in work, including this stupid thing!

Re the NCBES, it's now called the Orbsen Building. Lovely, eh? Anyway, the restaurant there is for staff only, i.e. not postgrads, but the University don't seem to realise that it'd probably shut but for the postgrads and we certainly won't complain about them using it!

As for the staff club in the Quad, yes, you have to pay a membership fee and be accepted and all that. Details are available on their out-of-date website.

Anyway, to get back to the point, the fees would kick in on the date outlined in the document, i.e. September 2006. An increase of 10% on this year's fees for 2005/06 was agreed months ago.

Since we wrote the documentation below, we've found that we weren't strictly correct with regards to the cap of €12,700 (blame our source, i.e. the State!). It's very complicated to explain and I don't have the notes in front of me, but basically, the University are screwing students over more than we thought - in particular, Arts students - by having an even lower cap and docking the postgraduate fellowships accordingly if students earn "too much" from the grant. The cap is €12,000 in the Faculty of Arts. Take a look at the postgraduate section of the Students' Union website for details of fellowships in these two faculties.

You could drop a line to the President of the University - president@nuigalway.ie - explaining your opposition to these proposed increases, whiohc the University is looking to implement without having done their homework fully. Suggest that they go back to the drawing board and look at all the things that will be affected by the decision, rather than making blind choices just for the sake of the money.

BTW, the meeting is at 11am tomorrow.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:08 pm 
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Just another thing confirming to me what a badly run shithole NUIG is.

What do you get for that E4,500? I shouldnt have to pay any of that as the colelge provids nothing for me besides a disgraceful email and student ID.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:46 pm 
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We discussed it for over an hour at the Údarás meeting today. In a way, this is good, because discussion on anything normally lasts about two minutes! In the end, we mainly lost. The fees have been agreed "in principle". The conditions are that it will be referred back to Finance/Resource Committee over the next few weeks and the fee increases will be passed subject to all of the concerns expressed above being addressed in a satisfactory manner.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:57 pm 
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Thank you for trying and for keeping us up to date.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:43 am 
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Luckily i have just finished my masters!
Was checking out how much my course is going up.
My masters is two years, and out of those two years, students only spend 1 semester in each year in NUIG and are still expected to pay full fees, which were 3 grand and now will be 4250 euro!

I think these increases will force students to go to other colleges were they know they can get value for their money :oops:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:05 am 
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It's true. I think a lot of the problem lies with the fact that the college is lacking in the resources needed for a lot of the courses. This means that some postgrads have to travel for extensive parts of the year (often paying rent in two places) to get to equipment etc that is needed for the research. I only thought it was fair that Galway's fees would reflect this. This now also eats further into the travel money that comes with some funding stipends.

The truth is that postgrads in this university are not considered most of the time. We are kept out of the loop about a lot of matters, and are only shoved into pokey little offices and told to come out after 2 - 4 years with results the college can boast about! Any process that I've had to undergo in this university as a postgrad has been a headache (registration, upgrading my library account to postgrad etc etc).

I'm only lucky that my course is in the sciences where funding is relatively easy to get (I didn't say it was easy). Poor Arts students - and I really do mean POOR - find it much more difficult. This will not help them in any way.

Thanks for trying to sort it out Paddy. I got a blow-by-blow account of yesterday's meeting from someone who was there, and it sounds like you really did try to reason with them about this. Apparently Iggy's fist hitting the table has more sway than an hour's discussion though. Ah well, I suppose we'll all just have to take it bending over, like everything else. :x

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